The forum is shutting down

[Sadness]

Hi everyone!

The moderation team has made the collective decision to close down the forum. We gave it our best shot and we don't believe it's worth the continued effort of keeping it running.

New registrations are currently disabled. The forum will go read-only on May 1st, and will be permanently deleted on June 1st.

[owocean]

this is so sad. alexa play worship house by sprain

[AuzzieJay]

I know it will seem odd to a lot of people that we are deciding to close down pretty much everything Yesterweb related. I could wax poetic for a decade about why.

I know some folks will want us to "hand over the reigns" to people rather than shuttering the YW completely.

That's not going to happen.

There are too many opportunists, too many people that used the YW for financial or even just social gain. We thought maybe the issue was the discord server-it wasn't. It was a systemic issue.

I (speaking for myself) see nobody that we could give the YW to. I see nobody that would want to put in the effort a community like this needs, and without effort and people that can dedicate their time and energy the YW ceases to be a movement and becomes a hobby.

And that's okay.

But the community of the YW is an easily exploitable cohort. Nostalgia is a powerful thing and if the YW is in the hands of those that want only to profit from the community then our members would be at risk. Without infinite volunteers and Infinite time and energy we can't continue in the current state.

In a group of 2.5k folks in the Discord we rarely had people ask to moderate or lead, we usually only had people ask for more of our already limited moderators and leadership.

So instead of handing over the YW, we're overseeing it's controlled demolition.

But the community we had shows just how many people realize something is wrong with the internet and capitalism and the exploitation of us all.

At the end of the day we found each other in the vastness of the web and I can't wait to see what you all do next.

[Ray]

Was literally waiting for this announcement
I guess most of us that are united by similar interests and saw this as a hobby will migrate to similar/generalist forums or create smaller ones if the need/want arises (I heard of melonland, might be cool to open up a thread to link to similar places).

I don't know what this means for the future of the Yesterweb itself, but for what it's worth - I hope you & the mods find a way to successfully achieve what you were aiming for in some form or another, or put the project to rest and not feel this heavy burden of having to moderate a community anymore. I feel like you have some very ambitious, activist project that I didn't really fully grasp, and that absolutely doesn't come across from what I've read on your website. I know you were expecting people to organise into smaller communities - but I'd be curious to hear about what exactly you were expecting (although I'm sure that sitting around complaining about the current state of things was not it)

For what it's worth, I'm glad I found you guys and even the strictly "website making" crew, because you've taught me some basis on "creating, discovering and enjoying websites and digital spaces", and that has been enough for me. I've found a new hobby, made healthier choices about my use of technology, learned some stuff, said hi to some cool peeps. The webring, link page, and even the forums have been a great tool to help me find more of that stuff, but I also know I'll be able to get on without, if it makes sense? Maybe because I wasn't in the discord/missed out on a lot of cool past stuff like the radio, and am not enough of a nerd to get into Gemini, etc.

I do have a question out of curiosity for the mods that hang around the forum and feel like talking about it - what are you going to do, individually? Is the Yesterweb still a project you're into? What sort of online spaces are you guys enjoying and creating and how?

[owocean]

what are you going to do, individually? Is the Yesterweb still a project you're into? What sort of online spaces are you guys enjoying and creating and how?

well the yesterweb gemini host is still up. the "moderation" for that one is just getting rid of empty accounts which i havent done for a while, i should do that. we've also still got the mastodon instance.

me personally? i still try to adhere to the manifesto and "rules" of the yesterweb in my life. also trying to incorporate the permacomputing principals into the way i use computers. i've been hanging around the merveilles community a bit recently, and chatting with likeminded people on IRC (tilde.chat). but i'm not doing much community building. just participating in the internet the best way i can, hoping others will do the same.

[Arevakhach]

Was literally waiting for this announcement

As was I.

A year ago, I found sadgrl.online. I read the entirety of its Cyberspace section. It is the reason I have a website today. And working on that website makes me incredibly happy. I've had experiences, and have met people I never would have otherwise. Those feelings still remain with me.

It's sad to think that I might not have been the intended outcome. But that message I received: "Make a website. Own yourself. Say something. Share something." Among many things, to me, was one of autonomy. I am grateful to have experienced a little bit of 'Yesterweb', but I believe I would not be living up to the ideals if I couldn't live without it.

1,000 thank you's for your time, effort, dedication and message.

I sincerely believe it changed my life.

All the best, yo.

[vincent]

[Starfighter]

Well shit.

I wish I had more to say, but that's it pretty much. I respect the heck out of everyone involved and I understand the decision, it's just a bummer to see nice things go away, you know? Anyway, then this will be my last post on here. What do I want to end it with? I think I liked everyone here in one way or another, I've read a lot of useful stuff even if I haven't responded to everything. My stay here gave me inspiration, guidance and insight.

To those about to DIY, we salute you!

[Rynn]

what are you going to do, individually? Is the Yesterweb still a project you're into? What sort of online spaces are you guys enjoying and creating and how?

well the yesterweb gemini host is still up. the "moderation" for that one is just getting rid of empty accounts which i havent done for a while, i should do that. we've also still got the mastodon instance.

me personally? i still try to adhere to the manifesto and "rules" of the yesterweb in my life. also trying to incorporate the permacomputing principals into the way i use computers. i've been hanging around the merveilles community a bit recently, and chatting with likeminded people on IRC (tilde.chat). but i'm not doing much community building. just participating in the internet the best way i can, hoping others will do the same.

I'll just add that there's a fairly large sister community of sorts that can be found in both Gemini and IRC as mentioned above. I'm a bit late to the game, but I came across Yesterweb from the former there. Many of the common topics seen here are discussed quite frequently there as well; the gemini protocol itself was basically the product of dissatisfaction with the current state of the web.

While I'll be sad to see the Yesterweb forum go, if the situation is as described it's an understandable one. I wish the owners and mods the best of luck in the future, wherever it may be.

[Sadness]

I do have a question out of curiosity for the mods that hang around the forum and feel like talking about it - what are you going to do, individually? Is the Yesterweb still a project you're into? What sort of online spaces are you guys enjoying and creating and how?

First, thank you for your kind response!

I'll keep the Yesterweb site live, in hopes of inspiring others to create their own spaces. But I'm burned out from online spaces/communities so I'm looking forward to stepping back from that. I made a handful of online friends I'd like to keep in touch with, but I'd also like to establish some offline social connections. Other than that, I just want to keep learning, growing/evolving, and doing my best!

[colours]

well this is a bummer :c

i joined here in the hopes of having another community/forum to post around, but i understand the reasoning. still a shame, though...

[Ray]

I do have a question out of curiosity for the mods that hang around the forum and feel like talking about it - what are you going to do, individually? Is the Yesterweb still a project you're into? What sort of online spaces are you guys enjoying and creating and how?

First, thank you for your kind response!

I'll keep the Yesterweb site live, in hopes of inspiring others to create their own spaces. But I'm burned out from online spaces/communities so I'm looking forward to stepping back from that. I made a handful of online friends I'd like to keep in touch with, but I'd also like to establish some offline social connections. Other than that, I just want to keep learning, growing/evolving, and doing my best!

Online spaces are cool, and I think by virue of being here, all of us probably owe something to them. But offline spaces are the best. When one has the time, energy, and resources to do so, touching grass and connecting with local peeps and activities is unparalleled. I think having less time to be online is almost always a win if it means you're having fun in the offline world
Thank you so, so much for everything you've done for us! I wish you the bestest of luck in life! <3

[CooperationIsKey]

PS: I'll still be working on my websites, including my personal site, Key's Klubhouse (note the new domain; I had to let go of the .gay domain, sadly, so it's a .com now!). Ya'll are always welcome to drop me a line in my chatbox, guestbook, or email! <3

[glacial_pace]

this is a bummer - this site was really cool to be a part of and interact with other people who are interested in early-web channels of communication. And it was fun to help people dabbling in web development, especially

as someone who also really enjoys forum environments that are focused on promoting good discussion spaces without all the features of modern social media, i'd be happy to create a subforum for users here to chat at https://basementcommunity.com. I understand the irony of posting this when one of the main complaints was people promoting their own stuff, but I'm not running my site for financial gain or clout. All the code is mine, the fees are out of my own pocket, there won't ever be ads, and the discussions are always going to be chronological without stuff being filtered to the bottom.

it's truly a shame when a site like this goes under because so many people don't realize how good forums were in their heyday.

[qt3.14]

Sad to see this place go too. I enjoyed this community while it lasted, and to see it burnt down saddens me.

I appreciate the time everyone put in to make it a place worth being. It was a cool place, one of the first spaces online I've felt I fit in. Was a good mix of tech people and art people. Exceptionally welcoming.

Some of the greybeards and a lot of the people who felt the YW was too big are over at https://32bit.cafe. If you want to come hang out (and are 18+), we'd love to have you. It's more layed back and more focused on just being a community than anything else. The FressRSS instance will be migrating to their domain shortly. We also run a public access linux server if you want hosting.

[artemis]

well now i'm sad.

seriously though, all the absolute best to you all <3

[OppositeKeith]

part of me felt like this was gonna happen eventually but i wanted to be wrong about it very badly. despite this sad news I had a good time being here and generally being more informative and critical to my thinking when talking about the internet and such. forum pages like these really helped me get better at interacting with people new and old and share my passion with hobbies more where apps like insta and even discord couldn't do.

And yes I understand the motives behind this. the lack of organization has certainly taken a toll in management here when closing the discord, radio, and now the webring and forums. this was one hell of an ambitious project to even shoot for let alone manage because of how much was given to us here with results that basically blew us out of the water in terms of expectations. even if it didn't work out i applaud you and your team for giving us all you got to make a great website for us to meet new people and showcase the things we love. y'all may finally rest when june 1st comes. goodbye boys

[madness]

I do have a question out of curiosity for the mods that hang around the forum and feel like talking about it - what are you going to do, individually? Is the Yesterweb still a project you're into? What sort of online spaces are you guys enjoying and creating and how?

when this forum closes the identity of madness will cease to exist
I will be returning to the collective shapeless mass of humanity
(building community offline)
and you will never hear from me again
forgetting that I ever existed
as it should be

I hope we made it interesting for you all
thanks for hanging out~
<3

[Cobra!]

I'm genuinely sad to see this news. I really really enjoy this place. I respect if this forum is too exhausting for moderators to keep up with, and I thank you for providing a fantastic space to hang out while it's still here.

I respect the decision to make the forum read only, but can we not preserve what we have instead of deleting everything?

There have been many interesting conversations to come from this place, and I think we should keep it up and make it accessible to people in the future.

[Sofly]

Well, that's sad, tho understandable

I have a lot to thank the yesterweb for, inspiring me to create a website, helping me with the stupidest of problems, giving me a place to talk with people with similar interests, and making me aware of dangerous patterns in modern social media

It's sad to see this community go, but i'm sure that it's spirit and ideals will still live on in other forums, websites, manifestos, etc

Thank you for everything, really

[Blog47177]

Lets Archive this to Entire forum to the Wayback Machine on Internet Archive so everybody can understand how we dream of a better internet and not the toxic one Silicon valley is giving here.

For people who been here more than 4 months and this forum is a part of your life sad to see this go away.

Hope this lives on at the Mastadon page.

https://social.yesterweb.org/explore

[Sinclair-Speccy]

I'm genuinely sad to see this news. I really really enjoy this place. I respect if this forum is too exhausting for moderators to keep up with, and I thank you for providing a fantastic space to hang out while it's still here.

I respect the decision to make the forum read only, but can we not preserve what we have instead of deleting everything?

There have been many interesting conversations to come from this place, and I think we should keep it up and make it accessible to people in the future.

Well, they yeeted the Webring so...

[ch1rx30]

I'll make a yesterweb sticker and put it on my computer. It would be cool if someone recognized it. I've been starting to visit a local anarchist hackerspace thing so maybe it will happen. I'll still miss yesterweb spaces though. I don't think irl interactions are a substitute or analog for meeting and spending time with people online.

[GaryStu]

Awesome lol

[madness]

I don't think irl interactions are a substitute or analog for meeting and spending time with people online.

I don't think so either. it's just different. both should be treasured and cultivated, if possible

[sixeyes]

Sad to see things end, but i get it.

I found the yesterweb fairly late in its lifecycle, missed most of the zines, never visited the discord. It's been a bit vague, and i always had this nagging sense that i'm not exactly doing what's expected of me, like i never grasped the actual intent of the place. A lot of the important formative discussion and events had already happened, and elsewhere.

Even so, i've had a great time on the forum, talking to who's here. I usually have a hard time making any sort of connection, but this was a nice place. Thanks for making the space and letting me be around for a while. I will miss it.

((This speaks mostly of my own ignorance, but i was surprised how many people are making personal websites! I used to see it as a long gone dream that i was a fool for holding on to. Seeing that there's actually people learning and making their first pages as we speak, that was nice. So i didn't wanna hear things like Madness' recent post in the thread about the webring, that personal websites aren't the once-and-for-all super great and easy solution to the problem of todays internet. But she's right, right? Reading the manifesto again, the third paragraph strikes me as the hard one. How not to alienate, and to be alienated, on the modern web. That'll be something for me to keep thinking about.))

[madness]

I found the yesterweb fairly late in its lifecycle, missed most of the zines, never visited the discord. It's been a bit vague, and i always had this nagging sense that i'm not exactly doing what's expected of me, like i never grasped the actual intent of the place. A lot of the important formative discussion and events had already happened, and elsewhere.

I'm sorry, it is unfair to you. we were never meant to be so pushy but it's our personal frustrations coming out. I retired from the yesterweb almost exactly a year ago and was forced to come back this year to deal with some serious problems that emerged. it's eating too much of my life and I can no longer afford it, I am beyond done with this.

it is unfair to everyone new, which is why we keep repeating to form your own communities now if you are able to do so. we are asking that the community pushes out of its comfort zone, as we did, and continue the mission with creative experimentation. sorry if that is vague, I just don't think we have the resources to elaborate, as it would take a massive discussion that happens usually on an individual basis. we had to decide to cut off our involvement at some point because we cannot perpetuate it forever, we are busy and exhausted

there are a lot of individuals that get conservative and reach a comfortable place and want to stop there. sometimes (often) they work actively against our desire to push forward to new things because it threatens their comfort. this is another source of personal frustration for us because yes, building something new typically requires destruction of the old. while we aren't trying to rush anyone, sometimes we feel overwhelmed by this conservatism. that is also unfair to the new people because they may have yet to reach that comfortable spot and what they are striving for is still progressive.

just more problems that could probably only solved with more organizers, but we've reached the breaking point (since january probably) and it's too late to fix it. now we are just hoping new organizations emerge and they have better luck in the coming years.

[malyzar]

A bummer, but a totally understandable and infinitely respectable decision. I've been following and lurking and telling people about the Yesterweb for years and will forever be inspired by the work that has been done. Best of luck and THANKS for everything.

[RogerMexico]

Sure, okay.

[azn_anarchizm]

Rest in Pepperoni, Yesterweb. It was awesome while it lasted. But, at the end of the day, we don't need the yesterweb, we are the yesterweb. We can still keep what we've built up going ourselves! It's not the end, it's just a new chapter

[Alice Smith]

As I closed my laptop, I realized that April Fool's Day always carries a sense of unpredictability. It's a day when anything can happen, and you can't be too sure what's real and what's not. This forum can't be permanently deleted, right? Then it hit me! This post wasn't made on April 01. It was made four days later. And it's real. As I was reading, my heart sank. The impact of a community often reaches farther than we can imagine. One door closing always opens up the possibility for another to open and in a world that is increasingly digital, communities are more important than ever. We need spaces where we can connect with others who share our interests and values.

The flame is there, ready to be reignited in new places and new ways. As we honor the past, we can also look forward to the future. The possibilities are endless when it comes to building communities that are inclusive, supportive, and uplifting. Together, we can create a world where everyone feels like they belong and have a place to call home.

[kurohaato]

Just my luck that the forum shuts down as soon as I decide to start posting again. I understand why though. May we all meet again elsewhere in an internet we've changed for the better. Until then, so long and thanks for all the fish. <3

[rubber cat]

I never really posted much here or in the discord but it was nice to find a community based around personal websites. Being a webmaster has long been a solitary pursuit for me, and it was a delightful surprise to come across this thriving scene. I suppose the writing was on the wall when the webring was discontinued, but this is a bummer. That said, I don't think I ever quite got was yesterweb was "supposed" to be so maybe it's for the best

[nighten]

Thank you for everything, Yesterweb folks!

I was often discreet, but the movement has been really influential on my online life since I discovered it a few years ago.
I don't have the shoulders to carry a community project on my own (not yet at least), but I will continue to be inspired by the work of sadness, the moderators and netizen to build my own space and be more actor of the way I use the web.

Good luck everyone, I really loved reading you and lurking on your cool websites!

[Bliss-net]

I had a feeling that this day was coming, like I said before I've been with YW since the start, I was way more active in the beginning but started to bow in and out in the middle, and life was just being life near the end.

With that being said, I'm VERY thankful that I found YW and was able to take part in the community events, if that was just chatting in the discord, checking out the new zine, or scoping out someone's finished project posted in the community project channel. YW help me realize I could make my own little part of the web away from the noise of social media, it was always nice to feel like I had a group of people to belong to, and who I felt could help me out with anything and almost everything webmaster related.

Thanks to YW I found some amazing sites, and made some awesome connections with people, that I hope will last after the YW is gone. I hope at least the Mastodon instance will still be active since alot of the YW peeps I've made seemed to be active on there, and it also seems like some of the YW spirit has moved to the 32 bit cafe as well.

I'll admit I haven't been active on my site in a while, I've been getting somethings in order on the IRL side of life, and I recently decided that I wanted to commit more to my personal sites and carving out my own online presence that's apart from social media. I really want to take up the digital garden approach to my sites and really enjoy taking time in making them a place for not only me to enjoy, but for other's who also feel out of place in the hard fast world of the modern web.

All in all, I've had enjoyed my time with the whole YW experince, both on discord and the fourm, while it lasted, it was short but sweet (like all good thing in life)

Y'all are free to hmu on my neocities feed, guestbook, email and/or discord (I'm usually just lurking and floating around in the 32 bit cafe), don't be afraid to say wazz up!

[Calypso]

ah, i was hoping this was an april fool's day post i missed, or even a late one at that.

But seriously, I'm sad about the forums closing, but I'm still super grateful for what the discord and the forums were (despite me being a newcomer and in-and-out activity-wise). I hoped that it would last longer, because I thought this was a nice place, but I understand that there were some problems so deep that just became hard to manage at some point.

This place genuinely had some great ideas though about the state of the internet now and the Digital Age that I'm going to take with me both online and offline. I'll keep working on my personal site in the meantime, forming small groups with like-minded people like everyone else here, and even working on my offline life. I'm quite hopeful; the ideas will live on!

You all have been great, and I hope we all see each other again on the interwebz! But if not, I wish you all the best, and thanks for all the good times we had!

[OiStepanka]

Like many others. I am sad this place is shutting down but I am sure that many of us will meet again elsewhere. I don't know if I would have been able to to join archive team and start saving websites if it wasn't for being here and being able to ask. So I thank you guys for that. I think the internet needs it's personal side back and Yesterweb is a big fish in making that goal happen. I'm glad the main website isn't going to be taken down. Even though it hasn't been long. I'm glad you guys made the internet hard again i.e. made us do work! Creating a website takes WORK. Posting on a forum TAKES WORK. It's not a click and boom thing like on social media. It's like the ingenuity of Myspace.. which I really miss (I am on SpaceHey, however @OiThisizSteph if anyone ever wants to hit me up.) I love this forum, and even though times is short, it means a lot. I'm going to work on my own personal website when I get the chance and there are so many resources I can only imagine what its like on the back end to maintain this. Props to the mods.. I've done that job in the past albeit not on THIS scale. But I get it. It is not easy AT ALL. Kudos to you.

In the meantime, I'll enjoy this place while it is still here and learn more. I am interested in Gemini spaces and am a total newb to that. But I figured out how to use my macs terminal and got Lagrange as a browser so .. it's a start? Definitely early 2000s vibe over there and reminds me of AOL in it's infancy. Any and all pointers will be appreciated! If it's not getting deleted too.. I'm down for joining the Mastodon instance of YW. It's too much just to up and say goodbye even though if we have to .. ;-; totally get it. Thanks for being the type of Humans Foamy the Squirrel would be proud of.

[lime360]

oh man, i feel like the whole yesterweb is about to die

(not to be rude)

[madness]

there's currently no reason to bring anything else down

the owner of the mastodon server has no interest in shutting it down

everything else is near-zero maintenance, it can generally be forgotten about and still stay up

so unless there is unforeseen financial hardship or other emergency, we aren't thinking about it

tho we have been discussing ways to make the mastodon server cheaper and more efficient, but that's going off-topic

[GrassyTrams]

wow, whos running this? the CIA? seriously, this is damn ridiculous. first the discord server, then the webring now the forum, if you keep failing to meet the standards, why the hell should anyone care about the yesterweb movement when you guys just give up. this is pathetic. This is such a betrayal of the entire movement and you should absolutely be ashamed. Like seriously, this is so stupid. It feels like the CIA installed a new leader to take away everything nice.

[madness]

wow, whos running this? the CIA? seriously, this is damn ridiculous. first the discord server, then the webring now the forum, if you keep failing to meet the standards, why the hell should anyone care about the yesterweb movement when you guys just give up. this is pathetic. This is such a betrayal of the entire movement and you should absolutely be ashamed. Like seriously, this is so stupid. It feels like the CIA installed a new leader to take away everything nice.

well, one time, at the peak of our anti-web3 mobilization, we were approached by a very large (and very pro-imperialist) newspaper for an interview. the interview never happened because they insisted that they could only publish it if they used our real names and not stay anonymous or use pseudonyms. we had to decline. interpret that as you wish

are we being attacked by state actors? I don't know, without any evidence it's impossible to tell. but it's better to be fearless than paranoid

[Starfia]

… but it's better to be fearless than paranoid

(Interesting to see "it's better to be fearless than paranoid" immediately following a flat insistence on pseudonymy.)

[madness]

… but it's better to be fearless than paranoid

(Interesting to see "it's better to be fearless than paranoid" immediately following a flat insistence on pseudonymy.)

would you prefer that we were reckless? have you tried being very gay, perhaps even a national minority, cultivating a very gay and trans community? would you prefer that we paint a target on our back, risk something that we are unprepared to handle, and could possibly put the rest of the community in danger?

maybe you can use your real name and have nothing to worry about. maybe you don't have flocks of reactionaries waiting for a chance to revoke your gift of life for merely existing

but that's our reality, and we choose to be careful

if you think you could do things differently and better then I encourage you to attempt to do so

[owocean]

wow, whos running this? the CIA? seriously, this is damn ridiculous. first the discord server, then the webring now the forum, if you keep failing to meet the standards, why the hell should anyone care about the yesterweb movement when you guys just give up. this is pathetic. This is such a betrayal of the entire movement and you should absolutely be ashamed. Like seriously, this is so stupid. It feels like the CIA installed a new leader to take away everything nice.

i think you may have paranoid schizophrenia

folks dont care about the yesterweb movement, is exactly the reason we're giving up on the forum.

[Starfia]

would you prefer that we were reckless?

No preference – your choice is yours, regardless of rationale. I was just commenting on the juxtaposition of two remarks you'd made, not on remarks you hadn't made. And I can appreciate a distinction between paranoia and caution.

[OiStepanka]

@ Owocean
I don't think its that people don't care about the movement. There is just a section of the population you will NEVER get back i.e. the people who grew up with the internet during its infancy and now are permanently siloed to the Big Box stores of the net. You guys are what make the net interesting. You folks are the shops in the strip joint of a mall. You folks are Spencer's Gifts, Hot Topic (specifically the ORIGINAL HOTTOPIC, the edgy one,) The Shop that sells Native American Blankets and random stuff you can't find anywhere else. And just like all those spaces they have one thing in common. They are NICHE. They are a Subculture. They are like Punk Rock, and Goth. Certain people will be on board and hardcore hold on. Others are, are normies. In internet land, I'll call em.. hard core "Facebookist." if you will (hell even normies hate FB but, I digress.)

This movement is niche.. and maybe its because my eyes haven't bled with pain of the power of holding this fort together. But most everyone commenting in these last few threads here.. this one. Others, with relevant interesting discussions that pertain to the small web. Those imo are your target market. Hate to use business lingo but that is the "tribe." They are for it. And I for one would keep these people really really close. Because out of 100, the best outside of the original start up crew and mods are usually 25-30 people, if you are lucky. You got a good movement. You just aren't gonna get those Facebookers that fight all day about everything, for fightings sake. And.. why want them. You gotta admit.. somebody ruined the internet.. and they have a behavioral signature. I might be biased. I might be an asshole. But I'll call bullshit and leave this comment off with a Proverb and 2 alternates:

1. Wisdom is protected behind a closed mouth. 2. German: "Halt's Maul, so fliegt dir keine Mücke hinein." Literally: Close your mouth; that way, no mosquitos will fly in. and 3. Heaven is built behind walls. i.e. the people in certain threads.. that might just be Yesterweb Heaven that leads to an awesome net spaces.. just my 2 cents.

Sure, closed mouths don't get fed.. you open your mouth so that the ones you want get the message, find you, then. shhhhh. lol.

It's the 20's yo. Do The Speakeasy thing. No Password. No Entry.

[madness]

Sure, closed mouths don't get fed.. you open your mouth so that the ones you want get the message, find you, then. shhhhh. lol.

It's the 20's yo. Do The Speakeasy thing. No Password. No Entry.

I am very confident that, if we started over with only 5 of our experienced members as core architects, we could build something that went beyond being a sub-culture to becoming a counter-culture. We just need a break, and we would need to plan.

It may sound strange but we never had serious problems appear because of normies. We have some interesting problems that are unique to our field. Our earliest problem was that, being niche, we attract many social outcasts and we deal with more anti-social behavior than you would reasonably find in the normie population. Very difficult, but not a movement-killer.

Afterward, the more serious problem that emerged came from PMCs. For those who don't know, PMC stands for "Professional and Managerial Class". These would be your tech bros, highly-educated tech workers, yuppies, bosses, elitists, and rich techie children with middle-class mentalities. While NOT ALL PMCs are a problem and some of them are very sympathetic to what we do, I'd say about half of them really do not have our interests in mind. And this is particularly challenging because this sector of people definitely has the time and money to completely derail the movement and solidify its status as a sub-culture, killing its counter-culture potential.

I bring up the difference between sub-culture and counter-culture because it's good to think about the prefixes of "sub-" and "counter-". A sub-culture will have you buying old web chokers and belly button studs at Hot Topic. It seeks acceptance and shares space within the old society. A counter-culture will actually make Facebook, Twitter, etc. a decent place to be. It fights to transform the old society and eventually replace it.

So you know, it's important to us that this doesn't devolve into being simply an aesthetic or hobby or slacktivism. If that's what people want then they can build it themselves and the groundwork was already laid out for them. I think we should push for more fundamental transformation.

~*~

As a note and as you can see we all have different feelings on this. Some of the mods want to close the forum down immediately. I have decided to take this month to reveal our situation in our last public forum. So as long as you're still here and you have questions, comments, criticisms, I'll be trying to respond as much as I can.

[Blog47177]

https://multiverse.plus/

Some of us are here on Multiverse.plus yes it's basically if Facebook, Discord, Myspace existed in the late 1990's early 2000's look. We can set up camp there in the event this shuts down.

Some of us are on spacehey, Friend project and of course our owned and operated neocities sites.

[marsworms]

Dang, bad timing on my part; looks like my period of taking a bit of a step back from indie web/retro web stuff to focus on school just so happened to coincide with the Yesterweb shutting down a lot of the things that I was looking forward to getting more involved in... I understand the decision, of course its the prerogative of those more directly involved in leading Yesterweb, just sucks to see right when I decided to get back on the forum.

It's also just really interesting seeing the listed reasons for shutting down the discord, the wearing, the forum; I definitely missed a lot of what is being discussed! Kinda feels like I wish I could have looked more into what was going on; people using the webring just for SEO definitely sucks. I really hope that the different Yesterweb community things shutting down doesn't contribute to the decline of the indie web/retro web movement... I've already noticed a distinct decline, at least with neocities sites, where there are fewer being actively updated compared to say, three or four years ago. I sometimes worry that I got interested in this culture, this movement, at the tail end of it. One can only hope that that isn't true. Love the forum, wish I had been more involved in the past months, sad to see it go, but I can totally understand and appreciate why. Hope madness and all the other folks who have been moderating and leading Yesterweb have a good future, and hope you all do! The small web/indie web/retro web/whatever people want to call it, the yesterweb, is a great thing. I might take up some of y'all's suggestions of alternate online spaces to stay in touch; I really want to focus more on indie/retro web design.

Don't think I'm saying anything that hasn't already been said, just kinda going off on a tangent here.

[Ray]

So you know, it's important to us that this doesn't devolve into being simply an aesthetic or hobby or slacktivism. If that's what people want then they can build it themselves and the groundwork was already laid out for them. I think we should push for more fundamental transformation.

It's been a bit vague, and i always had this nagging sense that i'm not exactly doing what's expected of me, like i never grasped the actual intent of the place. A lot of the important formative discussion and events had already happened, and elsewhere.

Actually - if you're willing to share, this is the thing that would nag me most to not have known once the Yesterweb's community shuts down. You say you wanted for this to be a counter-culture rather than a hobby: but how?
I had no clue this was an intent until staff's disgruntled posts in the forum here. From the Manifesto on the site, none of this is made clear. In fact, in the "about" section, the first "Objective/Mission" you list still is To advocate for a no (or low) cost self-expressive and creative hobby (building websites).
I understand that stance has been revised, but - shouldn't a movement that aims to be a counter-culture have some sort of more clearly defined scope, then? In a "here's who we are, this is what we want, this is how we go about it and what we do" way.

I thought I understood that the decision to close down the Discord was that it was unmoderable, and ended up contradicting the core commitments of what a meaningful community should be like. I thought when you mentioned about not wanting to become just a hub for Old Web enthusiasts, that you didn't want nostalgics lying around reminiscing but, rather, people full of energy to actually build what they wanted to see: websites, art, groups of friends, alternative social hubs.
But later realized that maybe, you would have liked for the community to do something altogether different. What, then?
In the same way, I thought when you said you'd hoped that "smaller communities would form", you meant it as in "likeminded people doing small hobby projects together and finding friends and peers instead of orbiting around and not joining in". But you meant something else, didn't you?

What is it that was expected of your members? Of us?
I really liked what I read on the Yesterweb.org hub! I made changes to my online life according to what I thought I'd read there, and am much happier for it. So - I don't want to insinuate that your work was useless or anything of that sort, I don't want to sound hostile at all. I am super grateful I found you guys!
But also: you will never really know how much I've taken of your Manifesto and Etiquette to heart, because those are often guidelines that ask you to rethink the way you, yourself, behave and approach others.

How would you know about all the arguments I ended up not having on reddit? Of all the times I ended up not posting a vent post and reaching out to a friend instead? Of all the kind words I said and the friends I've made by embracing honesty and engaging in good faith? Of the fact my inner mologue has gotten kinder since I got off social media? Of the good hearted fun and shivers of inspiration I felt when surfing through half-made personal or niche websites where the creator's passion shone through?

I've found great joy in following the vague guidelines you people laid down for us - but with no clear direction ahead, I just felt I could help by doing the same thing that had inspired me and helped me feel better: create a site (or try to, haha), learn a bit of code here and there, share my passion, send people your way, passionately rant about this to my friends.

What did you envision for this community, instead? If you were to try and re-build again, what would you encourage your community to do, practically?